Hi all,
Yesterday, we began our build-up to this Saturday's classic English Premiership
clash between traditional rivals Liverpool and Manchester United.
And to tap into readers' fever, we kicked off our build-up with a story of a Liverpool-turned-Man U convert Raja Edwin, a 16-year-old student who was influenced by peer pressure to switch sides (see diehard Liverpool fans' reactions to his story in The New Paper later today).
Yes, shoosing an English football club to support can be simple but dicey. Of course, supporting the Singapore national team should be a given.
Assuming you choose to support an English Premiership team, there's always the odd chance that the team may be relegated or down in the dumps a few years later.
Singapore fans of Leeds United, and there's quite an active few here in Singapore, know all about this.
Most of us will have grown up knowing the one unwritten rule of being a fan, that there's no question of "divorce" from your favourite football club.
Yes folks, if you're a newbie to English Premiership football this season and you've been seduced by Reading's grit, then you had better stick with them, through thick and thin.
Even if they end up gritting their teeth in the scrap heap of England's lower divisions. Marriage for life, in other words.
Otherwise, you will only face a lifetime of heckling and ridicule from friends who know about those "footballing" skeletons in your closet.
Like you, I got a shock when Raja Edwin first wrote in to The New Paper, declaring himself to be a Liverpool-turned Man U convert.
I mean, what species of football fan is his type?
Or do new Singapore fans of English football today think it's no big deal to switch
favourite teams or support two major English giants at the same time, like Liverpool and Man U?
The Postman would like you to respond to the emotions brought up by the story of convert Raja Edwin.
1. Are you cheesed off by what is, essentially, "bandwagon-hopping"?
2. Or do you defend such converts, and think it's perfectly all right to switch
teams in this day and age?
3. Were you even tempted to switch teams, and what were
the circumstances?
Also, are there more of you Liverpool-turned-Man U, or Man U-turned-Liverpool fans
out there?
Or even, double or three-in-one so-called supporters who aren't afraid to
say, "Yes, I'm a Man U, Liverpool and Chelsea fan"?
To further fan the flames of this debate, are you one of those football fans who started out supporting one team in when they were much younger, but over the years, have lost faith simply because these teams have dropped out of the spotlight altogether and you can't follow them on television any more?
Or that you simply outgrew them?
We can think of examples like Wimbledon, Derby County, Norwich, Nottingham Forest or
Leeds United.
Tell us why, and reply to all the various questions here by 3pm this Thursday, in not more than 200 words, (please click link right for auto word counter).
Post your views here by clicking on "comments" below my sign-off here or e-mail us by clicking the link right, and writing under the heading "Dear Postman".
At your service,
Ernest Luis
The Postman
The New Paper
(PS. E-mailers, especially bloggers, please let us have your full name, age, occupation, contact numbers and favourite teams, so they can be published this Friday)
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70 comments:
Those kind of bandwagon-hopping fans is definately a turn-off to me.Of course its not a grieve crime to do that and every fans have their rights to support not just one but a few clubs at the same time too.
However to me,once you found a club which you feel attached to,it will be something you hold on to for life,going through thick and thin together.Only then will a fan attained the essence of supporting a club and that is the passion.When your team won,you become part of it,when they lost,you cried with them.These things are what those "support only the winning teams fans" won't get associate with at all.
The Devils are the ones I truly support.I also support a team in every major European leagues so that it can keep me interested of the on-going situations outside EPL.Lazio of Italy,Barcelona of Spain,Schalke of Germany,these teams attract me with their brand of football,they don't win trophies every year,in fact some of them didn't win for years.
Winning isn't everything,if otherwise its best to be a neutral fan,after watching a match,cheer and pop a champagne with the winning team then.
For young Raja case,he seemed to have supported Liverpool due to peers pressure at first but later on found his true love in Man U.Here I won't call it bandwagon-hopping but just merely making his own choice.(Not because he switched to Man U eh.heh)
Cheers
i'm only 17. and i've been supporting man utd since i was like.. what. 6? i was introduced to the world of soccer, by my dad. who's been a man utd fan for over 20 years.
even though i didn't know much about football back then. i could still remember yorke. and all the olbies. coming up with wonderful passes. one-twos. tricks. and have never failed to make me smile. people say i support man utd cause, they're big, they're famous, and because of their winning history. i can only listen, and not fight back incase i start a fight.
I am not really turned off by what i read about Raja but felt surprised that he could claim he supported Liverpool just because his friends told him to. For me and i believe i speak for others, we support a team because of the attractiveness of their football and not change around just because that particular player we support is no longer playing. From the days of Kanchelskis and Ince to Ronaldo and Rooney, I am proud to say, i've been with the Devils since. Credit to Raja who perhaps decided that he preferred the more attractive football that Man U play as compared to Liverpool. I am not sure if his conversion to a Man U fan coincided with Man U's last league win around that period though. If that is the real reason, I will then be turned off. I know of a guy who once supported Blackburn when they won the EPL in 94/95, switched allegiance to Newcastle when they bought Shearer and were topping the table and finally Arsenal when they won the double. Now, that is hopping on the bandwagon. I am not discriminating anyone but i suppose such a change normally happens when you are older and more into the game that you are able to make your own decision as compared to the younger people who are still unsure of the different teams and attractiveness of football out there. I guess there are plenty of fair weather fans out there who like to be associated with a winning team. Man U may have lost its way alittle since their last league win. But i am still proud to say I am a Red Devils fan thorough and bred!
Cheers,
kel
I'm going to resist the temptation to castigate this adulterous football fan as a filthy, treacherous heathen who should hang at dawn and say simply this:
You can only take out of football what you put in. You are free to skip from one club to another. You can swop your shirt whenever you like. But ask yourself what it will actually mean when you win?
I've been going to Southend for almost 20 years. I've seen the kind of blank-minded incomptence that can turn a man grey in minutes.
But when Southend beat Man Utd earlier this season I was so excited that my head nearly fell off. All those years of strife were suddenly validated.
Switch clubs by all means, it's a fairly free world. But don't ever expect to feel what we feel.
i dunno the story of raja. so i wont comment. but i don't like the ppl who are 3-in-1. or 2-in-1. or 4-in-1. whatever. but if u support a club, u mus stay with it forever.
As a Liverpool soccer fan since 1970s, I must say that there were times I would like to jump ship to another team in the 1990s. But hope springs eternal for a better tomorrow and you hope against hope that Liverpool will win the some honours and the EPL championship. I remember the times in the 1990s that that the wait for honours is forever. FA Cup, League Cup, Charity shield were some of the honours Liverpool got after 1999. When Liverpool won the Champions League in 2004/5 season, you cannot imagine the pride that welled up from my chest. The years of 'pain' of waiting was worth it.
Many people know Liverpool fans as the best behaved fans. They would never heckle an opposing team and they would still cheer the team when it is down. Liverpool has The Hillsborough Memorial at Liverpool FC's ground at Anfield. It was built in remembrance of the 96 fans who lost their lives in the FA semi-final cup of 15 April 1989.
This leaves me to wonder if Raja fits the pattern of a Liverpool fan. Maybe he is young? Aaron is young and he stayed loyal. Does anybody remember the arrogance of Man U in the 1990s? Liverpool fans hate Man U. When Liverpool were the champions in 1980s they were never arrogant. A true Reds fan would never love the Devil. But we should not condemn Raja and hope he stays loyal to Man U for the rest of his life.
A final point is you may admire good players as all good soccer fans do. I do like Ronaldinho as he is a great player and displays true professionalism. But to love and support a team is a different matter. And to change from one team to another team and yet to another team makes me wonder if the soccer fan has any loyalties at all in his life!
Arsenal lost to 'handball' Henchoz in one of the FA Cup Finals. Arsenal lost to Barca in the CL Finals. Arsenal lost to Chel$ki in the Carling Cup Finals. Gutted? Terribly... Find a new club? HELL NO!!!
I'm sure some Gooners converted to become new fans of the whicheverclubthatjustwon team. Well guess what? I'd rather not have them as Gooners in the first place.
Fair-weathered fans make me sick.
Tell me: where are the hordes of Blackburn fans when they won the league in 95? Are they 1) Man U fans? 2) Liverpool fans? 3) Chelsea fans?
Just stay away from the Gunners...
When you want to support a team, support them all the way. Through thick or thin.
Sounds like getting married.
I've been supporting Liverpool at the age of 6 or 7. All my primary school friends are supporting the Red Devils but so what!?
I don't want to get too agitated over this issue, because I don't think I should condemn someone just because of his or her personal choices. I remember a few years ago, there was this interview in TNP with this local celebrity (I can't remember who) who claimed Liverpool "lost him" with our style of play and all, and I was just thought, "Good riddance then."
There was also this time when this guy who was irritating me with his anonymous smses (though I actually knew who he was) once smsed me saying if Raul joined us, he would be a Liverpool fan (he's apparently a Real Madrid "fan"). I wasn't exactly very kind when I replied something along the lines of "Then I wish he never joins us, because I wouldn't want to have a shallow fellow fan like you."
Strong words maybe (and needless to say, he stopped his smses after that), considering how I often like to "psycho" my Man U friends to convert to Liverpool, but often it's really just out of fun (although I feel they seem to talk more about Liverpool to me these days than Man U....? haha).
Everyone makes his own choices, but I think when it comes down to it, I wouldn't lose sleep over anyone we've "lost" along the way because it would mean they weren't true fans anyway.
In our local context, it's not hard to see why such fans exist. The English lads will have more of an affiliation for their hometown clubs because they were brought up to support their local teams. In sunny Singapore, the fair-weather fans may not share the commitment and loyalty of our English lads due to the lack of affiliation.
The media also plays a huge role in who fans support, especially for the younger generation. Some have commented that the EPL seems to have only 4 teams. However, it’s no surprise we will have mainly supporters of the big guns due to the extensive media coverage of these teams.
Sometimes, there are the "Beckham fans," people who support their favorite players and the clubs they are in. Hence, whom we support is shaped by what and whom we see frequently.
In hindsight, the moral obligation is for the fans to stick with the club of their choice through thick and thin. But who’s to say morality still exists in football?
At the end of the day, if people are able to sleep easy over their choices, we just have to respect their decisions even if we don’t agree.
Bandwagon-hopping disgusts me. I believe in club loyalties. In England, fans support their hometown clubs. While we're in Singapore, we have the luxury to be able to choose our favourite team, whether its the players, tradition, style of play or chances of winning that affects our decision.
Once you have chosen a club, you stick with it for life. I liken the club as your spouse, and the club's success as money. When your spouse goes bankrupt, you leave him or her? That begs another question, do you love your spouse or his money?
Ok as Eric had said, Raja only 'supported' Liverpool because of his friends. He probably could be pardoned because he didn't quite chose Liverpool. Now that he is a Devil, I hope he stays with us all the way, even if we are going to suffer a few more championship-less seasons. *touch wood*
It doesn’t matter how you choose your team, but stick with it. Yeah I agree with Iain, you can switch your clubs for all you want. We know who are the real fans out there. :)
-Manchester United fan Raymond Ng
I think Raja's case is okay, if he just vocally supported Liverpool, just to be like his friends. It doesn't necessarily mean that he really supports the club. After all, he might have been too young to understand what supporting Liverpool was all about. Possibly it came to a situation like this:
Friend: I support Liverpool
F2: Me too
F3:Me 3
F4: Me 4
Friend1: Raja, you??
Raja: Umm... yah I support Liverpool!!
But if you're one of those pathetic low-lifes who just keep on jumping the bandwagon, just to support the winning team or the favourite team around, then you'll never understand the joyfulness of losing. Yes, losing is painful, but it feels really really good when your club has made some important or significant victory.
For those who support more than one club, I can't be bothered to talk about them. This is even worse.
Chelsea FC for life. Even if one day, IF, they get relegated. Which I'm sure some of you believe might happen if Roman left. :) But, we've finished consistently in the top 6 over the last 10 years. I think we can survive without Roman. Just have to find another Zola!
I don't even see people who hop from what club to another as true fans to start off with. Don't get me wrong, it's perfectly alright if you aren't a true fan, because there's no rule which says you must be.
Most of us must have started supporting our favourite team because of one player (my case), the style of play or because of the results. But once you passed that stage, it has to develop into something more, and basically that's when you fall in love with everything the club is and get "married".
And once that happens, your love and commitment to the club should transcend above every other trivial thing (like results, whether your fav player stays, etc).
I'd admit there are possible circumstances when I may "divorce" my club, but I can't really tell you what they are when I don't know myself either. Just put it this way, like raynaldo mentioned, you don't divorce him because he's poor, you don't even divorce him once he becomes old and ugly. But I would probably fall out of love with him under very extreme circumstances when he has become a completely different person from the one I fell in love with.
Haha, ok, enough about all this love-talk. Making me develop goosebumps :)
bandwagon-hopping for new football fans are ok.. cos they are still unsure of the club profile. They should be forgiven.
But for those who are already supporting their own clubs. It is advised that they should show utmost loyalty. Showing support to a club is like a marriage.
Break that and you face the after-consequences.
hahah. Cheers. ;)
Some sports fans don't follow a certain club. They happen to like a certain player playing for that club hence they supported it.
Once this player moves on to another club or was sold to another club some supporters go with him.
You can not fault him for dissing his red replica jersey to a yellow or blue one.
I was devastated when Owen left Liverpool, and I actually cried a lot over it. It sounds silly now, but I've never experienced a break-up, and that must have been closest to one.
But I was never tempted to switch clubs because of that. I didn't even like Real Madrid! By then, to me, Liverpool was more than just about Owen. Yes, initially I chose to follow Liverpool knowing nothing else but one player, but I came to love everything else about the club over time. From the rest of the team, to the manager, the fans, the club's proud history, tradition, motto and values, it seemed like with every new thing I learnt about the club, I loved Liverpool more. :)
The ONLY time when I was actually tempted to switch clubs was when I thought I was jinxing Liverpool. I know it sounds crazy, but we were top of the table when I started following Liverpool that season, and all of a sudden went on this worst run of results in 50 years. And I got quite miserable when I realised I couldn’t bring myself to support another team. The thing was, how I could I be a true supporter of another, when I just wanted to bring the bad luck to them instead!
Liverpool without a shadow of a doubt is the only team that allows lesser and imperfect beings like my self to believe. Fairy tales are still found in every well defined dictionary thanks largely to this team.
Rewind.
Champions League Final 2005. AC Milan 3 Liverpool 0. What transpired next is truly the most remarkable series of events I can claim to have a knowledge of. The lads are walking to the changing room, heads hung low. The KOP finds its voice........'We will get even in the second half'..........they cry. 'We will score don't you worry' they sang in unison. The KOP starts its most gut wrenching yet stoic rendition of You'll Never Walk Alone. This was getting ridiculous, I thought. The Kop had never been sarcastic, it would be sacreligous. Could this be the first time? Fast Forward to the 62nd minute.....Gerrard shows incredible agility to meet Riise's cross and plants the ball into the corner. Decency and respectability is restored to the score-line at least. Then Smicer (I really couldn't tell what he was thinking but I'll bet that the decision he took is going to be the best of his life by far) tries one from long range. Incredible stuff. An out-of-contract substitute shows the disgustingly wealthy breed of footballers what passion is all about. What wearing your heart on your sleeves means. This is my Liverpool. What had happened filled me with an undescribable sense of pride. Tears welled in my eyes. At least we will go down fighting, to the last man, I thought. They did one better, they equalised. Now playing like men possesed, each individual on that field had absolutely no right to be performing the way they did. I can understand what adrenaline does to people, but this was something else. Another worldly in fact. 6 minutes of madness that I will treasure until I die, a very satisfied man. Each player was out of it. They were falling all over the place with cramps, exhaustion, injury and the list could go on. And what about Gerrard? Boy, did he lead or what? He was everywhere, covering every blade of grass on that pitch in Istanbul. Incredible stuff, super human efforts by the lads right up to the last kick of the game. I didn't care who would win in the shootout, all I knew that the lads had just stepped on the plate of legendary proportions. Never, ever will I trade that experience for anything else. Period. It seemed a bonus that they won the shootout. When self-belief vanished within minutes of the game, only one entity stood tall, proud, unyielding: the Kop. This is what Liverpool is all about. It's more than winning. It's a religion. Every once in a while something or someone'happens' to us that for some unknown reason touches our soul. That is the relationship between Liverpool and the Kopites. It is this special bond that binds all Liverpool fans together. So for me at least the matter with regards to Raja Edwin is a non-issue. He never shared this special connection like the rest of us did. He was not even a Liverpool fan to begin with because all Liverpool fans know, there exists only 1 football club we fans pay our allegiance to: Liverpool. So if you don't support Liverpool, you support nothing.
YNWA
Sachin Rai
Oh yes, I forgot to add. I guess many of you might have heard that Liverpool fans over in the UK launched a 'reclaim the KOP' movement. This movement was intent on weeding out the insincere and commitment-phobic supporters who didn't know the true meaning of being a Red. Raja Edwin can count his lucky stars he is here and not in Merseyside with that silly smirk on his face wearing the jersey of the 'other' red team. This is not to say that Reds' fans are violent but such is the intensity of love for the club that there are some things we neither forgive nor forget. A case in point is Wayne Rooney and his ludicrous remarks about the Hillsborough disaster to the Sun newspaper. The former and latter have not been forgiven and I'm pretty sure they will never be forgotten. No Liverpool fan will be caught dead carrying the Sun tucked under their arms.
YNWA
Sachin Rai
First and foremost this boy is an extreme joke and a mockery of all true football fans! Even so to me as I have been a Liverpool fan for 20 years. I could have jumped ship during the 90s when Pool were going through a horrendous slump but I stick through it nd stayed true to Liverpool just as much as I would stick to the constant nagging of my wife everytime Pool is playing on TV. To me, Raja is just a young chap who is growing up in an environment of fake championship winners like Chelsea, Leeds, blackburn and Newcastle. I still remember young boys and girls wearing their jerseys when these teams are at a high. But fans of Man United of old (not the recent ones), Arsenal, Everton and Spurs are the true fans who will usually be in their late 20s,30s and the older generation as we have been through the times when there were no coverage of English League and who only either listen to BBC, reading the old SHOOT magazines and waiting for the following week of BIG LEAGUE SOCCER show(for those senior chaps who still remembers)in order to follow up on their respective teams. Anyway a message to Raja, be a true fan and stop being a joke! You do not and should never swap your loyalty and I say this not as die-hard Pool fan but a football fanatic whose blood flowing through the veins are as strong as my love for Liverpool Football Club. As I had always told my wife, I love Liverpool first before I love her and she should never take my team away from me...To all Pool Fans reading this, YOU WILL NEVER WALK ALONE!!
Regards,
Mohd Farid
This is my first time posting my comment on the postman because this is a topic that really hit close to my heart..Oh my god itzkani!I really could feel your passion for LIVERPOOL from your comment and I truly feel the same.That champion league final was the event that made me feel that I could sell my soul for this team because they are a team that
don't have the word 'give up' in their vocabulary. During the half time of that match, I was so desolate that I comtemplated of just going to bed with a heavy heart but my faith in Liverpool refused to believe that 3-0 will be the final score..And we all know the outcome of that final..
Actually supporting a club is more than just watching football.Celebrate when your team wins and cry with them when they lose. Supporting a club can actually bring people closer like what happened with me and my dad.
I initially had no idea of what EPL is and about the clubs in EPL but out of curiousity I asked my dad which team he support.Without hesitation he said Liverpool and from then on I watched my first liverpool game and from then on I've never look back. I began looking forward to the next match that liverpool will play and my father ,sensing my interest, even patiently explained to me the offside rule. Since my dad can't read english, I would then update my dad on the development of Liverpool by reading the New Paper.Now my weekend is spent with Dad watching every Liverpool match without fail.We would groan in fustration together(which is pretty often hehe) and shouted with delight together.
So you see supporting a club is more than just about winning or losing.Its about the passion that you have for your team. If you don't have PASSION then you got NOTHING. I really got to thank LIVERPOOL because this is the club that brought me and my dad closer and I know that I'll never walk alone :)
Samuel Ng said 'Many people know Liverpool as the best behaved fans...'
If what you've said is the truth.Tell it to the loved ones of slain Juventus fans inside Heysel Stadium during 1985 European Cup Final by the best behaved Liverpool fans
It is 'Liverpool as the best behaved fans..' that deprived Everton, 1984-85 First Division Champions, a chance of winning 1985-86 European Cup.Manchester United, another victim deprived a chance of winning 1985-85 European Cup Winners Cup, must be given formal apologies and monetary compensation by Liverpool.Everton and other English Teams that qualified 1985-86 UEFA Cup should also be monetary compensated with formal apologies too.
From : Chester Low
Lady La La,
For your darling husband, insist that you must support his Manchester United, will you divorce Liverpool to support Manchester United to show your love for him? I do hopefully you do it, cause you tend to be wonderful comrade fan.^-^
From: Chester Low
I don't think that switching club loyalties is a something that should be done.
If you support a club, you stick with them through thick and thin. You stick with them when they lose to Barcelona in the Champions League final, you rejoice with them when they beat ManUtd twice in the Premiership, you cheer yourself hoarse when they beat Liverpool 3-1 and 6-3 in the matter of four days, and you stick with them when they lose to Chelsea in the League Cup final.
Yes, I am a Gooner. I say that proudly. I cannot image supporting any other team as I do Arsenal. Arsenal is my team. And you stick with your team through thick and thin.
In Raja Edwin's case, I think that he was influenced by his friends into being a Red. Later on, with the influence [[Are we seeing a pattern here?]] of his friends and cable television, he decided to switch loyalties and become a ManUtd supporter.
Now, he could have been Liverpool "supporter" because of his friends, but I feel that he had to make a choice to follow Liverpool as well. Jumping from the Reds to the Red Devils because of influence is not an excuse to me.
You should choose which club you want to support, and not just go, "Oh I support [[add club here]]" just to agree with your friends. I have ManUtd, Chelsea and Liverpool supporting friends, and not for a second am I tempted to switch loyalties.
If you're a true supporter of a club, you're binded for life to that club, and there's no way that you can go from being a Gooner to a Red Devil. Only the people who support teams for a player [[How many girls do I know who "support" ManUtd because of C.Ronaldo? Oh, goodness.]], or because of influence can do that.
I leave you with a quote from the book Fever Pitch by Nick Hornby, who is a Gooner: "I had discovered after the Swindon game that loyalty, at least in foobtall terms, was not a moral choice like bravery or kindness; it was more like a wart or a hump, something you were stuck with. Marriages are nowhere near as rigid - you won't catch any Arsenal fans slipping off to Tottenham for a bit of extra-marital slap and tickle, and though divorce is a possibility (you can just stop going if things get too bad), getting hitched again is out of the question. There have been many times over the last twenty-three years when I have pored over the small print of my contract looking for a way out, but there isn't one."
Gooner for life.
-Belinda.
chester:
Sorry for tis comment but i will speak on Heysel as Pool fan..I watched that game on TV as an 8 year-old and memories of it still brew in my head. Do not blame on that dreadful for what had happened to other teams as a result of that incident. I, as a Pool fan like all the others in the world, would not condone your comments and remarks about the heysel tragedy. It had happened and should not be brought unless to commemorate the unlucky ones. God bless them all...Chester, once again please do not bring up the topic of heysel Tragedy once again... Thank you!
I dislike 2-timers or 3-timers fans of EPL clubs.They're unfaithful adulterers.
Band-wagon hoping fans cannot be trusted and unreliable except their votes when the team is doing well.
There isn't any right or wrong, to switch support of clubs,like changing of jobs or carreers for better prospective and higher pay.
I'm one woman guy.I stand by her, from good times to bad times and vice versa, happiness and sadness, and healthy or sickness.Same with my EPL Club support.
Therefore, no temptation in switching to other clubs.Even the club is out of sight, from TV and newspapers or radio, I won't switch my support because of my love for the club.
'When I fall in love, it will be forever.' That is my pledge in love of Manchester United, including my darling threats to divorce me.
'Is there anynthing that you want.
'Is there anything I can do.
'Just count on me and I will send
'it along.With Love From Me To
'You, Manchester United.'
From : Chester Low
No way man Chester. (strange how that turned out - "manchester" no pun intended!)
Firstly, I wouldn't marry someone so evil to force me to divorce Liverpool! If he really loves me, no way would he do that! My current boyfriend of 5 years+ is like a half-Liverpool, half-nothing fan, and although he does often ask the irritating question of "Do you love Liverpool more or me?" I don't see why I should ever be made to choose. Of course, there are some things more important than football, but basically, I come in one whole package, Liverpool included! If he can't accept the Liverpool portion, then too bad, dump me!
And why bring up the tragic incident again? Personally to me, things like this ought to be left in the past, though we should definitely reflect upon the lessons learnt since then regarding crowd control and stadium safety (the latter especially after what happened at Hillsborough too). Likewise, after what happened recently at Catania, we shouldn't just focus on screaming murder, but what should require more attention is how to resolve these social problems and lack of stadium safety standards.
The first football game I ever watched on TV in my life that I remember was the 1976 FA Cup final between Southampton and ManU. I was coerced into watching it by my cousin - I wasn't really a football fan. I didn’t like my cousin in those days – he was supporting ManU and thus I naturally took to supporting Southampton. ManU lost and boy was I pleased. The very next year, I started watching football without my cousin around and realised that ManU played a very good style that was exciting, entertaining and pleasing to the eye. I was “converted”. I have supported ManU since 1977, a 30 year supporter. So as you can see, we should have no problem with “converts”. Even if we are dealing with “fair-weather” supporters, so what, it is my own support that counts. If the person beside me is also cheering for my team, then all the better. If not, I hope my ManU beats his/her team comprehensively.
I'm happy to know there are Liverpool fans, fortunately they are in the minority, still behaving like their counterparts in Heysel Stadium incident.
Liverpool's fans arrogant actions at Heysel Stadium, resulted 1984-85 First Division Champions Everton can't play in 1985-86 European Cup.I'm sure Evertonian fans would like formal apology and monetary compensation from Liverpool.
English teams banned from playing European Cup, European Cup Winners Cup and UEFA Cup from 1986 to 1990 because of Liverpool fans action.I'm sure fans of other clubs are angry, with Liverpool fans, because their favourite clubs can't participate in European competition.
It is Manchester United, winning 1990-91 European Cup Winners Cup, restore English soccer name which was tarnished by Liverpool fans.
It is banning of English teams in playing European Cup, European Cup Winners Cup and UEFA Cup, resulted in the current demise of England's soccer standard.
From: Chester Low
To Lady La La
It all started with Samuel Ng's "Liverpool fans as the best behaved fans', which prompted me to give a gentle reminder of I Know What Liverpool Fans Did In Heysel Stadium.^-^
I'm sure fans of other clubs would also like to know I Want To Know Which Club Is Responsible For English Teams Banned From European Competitions.^-^
From : Chester Low
Bandwagon-hopping does not seem wrong to me. It is possible for the current giants of the Premiership to do a Leeds and be demoted. I still wonder how many Leeds United fans are there left in Singapore? Very few.
As a student, I mainly would like to support a Premiership team as the Premiership is very popular among Singaporeans. Every morning, I look foward to arguing with my classmates on who will win during the build-up top big matches. If the Devils were in Leeds' position it would not be very exciting for me. I think it is ok to support different clubs. As long as one still has the passion for football.
Also, bandwagon-hopping would help stiving teams like Portsmouth and Reading to be successful. How else do you think teams like Man United, Arsenal and liverpool have so many fans? People obviously felt that they should stop supporting teams like Wimbeldon and Nottingham Forest to support them.
I am a chelsea fan and alway a chelsea fan.....it not a crime to support other team...I support ROBBEN and SHEVACHENKO .They are great players with skill...But i support gerrad who is also a great player.....In fact people support because of the player NOT the club..They should be call PLAYER FAN...Skills from the player make up the great match ...Skill make up wonderful pass and wonderful play....See how robben play and change the match in the carling cup final..People support player not the club ...I think it i9s natural to switch team as more players are getting better and better...
wow! i definately agree with eric kng tt bangwagon supporters are a real turn off,though it's each person's choice to switch & have supported many clubs. but to me it stinks and is parallel to a man/woman having multiple sleeping partners! i may seem extreme but this is my opinion. and im extreme cos thats how i take my football! come on,even if Spurs started to really challenge for honours and people start jumping onto the bandwagon,i'll b sickened! dont go supporting clubs juz so it improves your self-esteem or gives u a say in a debate for an upcoming match(i.e Pool vs Utd).
u can give your 2cents worth even if ur favourite team is in
League 2! i have a frend who stil follows Wimbledon(now MK Dons)!
If supporting a club for life is like marriage, then bandwagon - hopping must be like choosing the right partner.
I met my first crush at kindergarden - a cutie wearing that red Candy shirt, but we drifted apart and soon, sencondary school came and i had my first real relationship with someone who taught me kung fu and stuffs about seagulls.
Now i'm proud to say i'm in love with a fabulous person who strives on nurturing talented kids. We've been going out for seven years and im planning to pop the question very soon.
Raja Edwin you are a disgrace!Excuses could be made for his young age but isn't that the most vital time to choose which team you should support. People do not choose a team to support when they are 25 years old, they do it from young. Usually through the influence of their dad's. The tradition of the club is then instilled and then "tattoed" in them for the rest of their lives. It's bad enough that Man United fans are being called johny-come-lately's due to the success in the 90s. Now with supporters like Raja, the real passionate United supporters have no chance as we will also be classed as glory hunters. You should stay with your club through thick and thin. But what do I know? I'm just a glory hunter...
Disappointed is the what I feel after reading. Everybody like to associate themselves with champions. A true fan is one who stick by their club through thick and thin. 5 years ago before a certain rich Russian bought over Chelsea, how many Chelsea fans do you know?
Money may buy success but money can never buy passion.
Been a Liverpool fan for the past decade, since the Houllier days where Liverpool was struggling for the Champion league spot and playing in the UEFA cup
Yet, that never deter me from supporting them, every time I see the 11 players donning the red jersey , a sense of pride fills me. From the heart stopping fightback in Istanbul to the stunning performance in Barca, being a fan of the reds simply inspires me never to give up.
Even during the recent thrashing under the hands of Arsenal, the fans cheered on till the very last second. Other club fans would left the stadium early or remain silent. This I what set a Liverpool fan apart from other fans- loyalty and passion.
Fabian Lim Dao Wei
17 years old
estate_101@hotmail.com
Anyway, I think 2/3/4 in 1 fans are all right.
But they must support the teams all the way.
But changing of teams isn't nice. You support a team, and late switch teams.
For exmaple, if Man U wins the title, you support them. Next season, Liverpool wins the title, you then switch to Liverpool.
That isn't nice to the teams you support. For me, support them all the way.
I think he's just following the wind meaning he supports teams that's leading the pack. I've been a Red Devils fan since 1980 and had my happy and sad moments since then. Been to Old Trafford a few times, manage to catch some of their away games in London and even been to the match in which Man Utd lost heavily to their neighbours, Man City few seasons ago. I guess for 16y/old Raja, he probably doesn't know much about being a REAL fan as he can switch clubs easily. He probably started supporting Man Utd when they won the Treble in 98-99 season, swiched to Liverpool when S.A.F sold off his star players n Man Utd started playing badly and not winning Major trophies. Only lately did Man Utd played well and grind out results even when not playing well. This season, Man Utd have been consistent thus Raja switched back to supporting Man Utd, probably knowing they would be able to wrestle the Premiership title from Chelsea whereas Liverpool have been blowing hot and cold.
Fabian,
Everybody like to associate themselves with champions. A true fan is one who stick by their club through thick and thin. 5 years ago before a certain rich Russian bought over Chelsea, how many Chelsea fans do you know?
That is a very dangerous implication that you are making over Chelsea fans. You may be a Liverpool fan since you were 7, but Liverpool were Champions then. Who's to say these new fans, won't continue staying with Chelsea when they get older? I'm saying new, not badwagon-jumpers. Clubs aside from Liverpool, Man U, Arsenal get very little coverage from the media. How do you expect their fans to grow as much as them? And only recently Chelsea had to spend millions just to break into this 3-club monopoly.
Money may buy success but money can never buy passion.
That goes the same for all club supporters. Even Chelsea fans. Who do you think you are, arrogant scouser, to call us without passion?
Even during the recent thrashing under the hands of Arsenal, the fans cheered on till the very last second. Other club fans would left the stadium early or remain silent.
HAHAHA. And when Chelsea trashed Liverpool 4-1 at Anfield, many were seen leaving and YNWA sounded more like a whimper. Its the same for every club, there's bound to be those who leave early or remain silent. Stop dreaming that Liverpool fans are the saint of football. After all, which club was responsible for the ugliest things in English football? I hate to say this, but I'm sorry, its getting too ridiculous to take in.
Duncan,
Excuses could be made for his young age but isn't that the most vital time to choose which team you should support.
Rubbish. And totally unsubstantiated. Why is it vital? Care to explain?
People do not choose a team to support when they are 25 years old, they do it from young.
Why can't they? What if they started to watch football when they're 25? They cannot support a club now because they're not true fans?
Usually through the influence of their dad's. The tradition of the club is then instilled and then "tattoed" in them for the rest of their lives.
You mean from within a family, its not allowed or permissible to support another club. Just because dad supported a club, everyone else in the family has to follow? Utter nonsense.
But what do I know?
Indeed. Well said.
All I can say to young Raja Edwin, you are no Man United fan, and definitely not a Liverpool one either. I won’t be surprised if he were to be featured 5 years down the road and claim he is a Reading fan should the Royals somehow get their billions from some new owners and become a star team. That will be really ridiculous.
He is probably too young to realised how Liverpool managed to rule not only England but Europe in the 70s and 80s but claimed to have supported them. And when Man Utd dominated the scene in the 90s and early 2000s, he switched allegiance due to peer influence.
By supporting ONE club will really make you want to love the game even more. By going through the ups and downs of the club every season, it makes following football so exciting. You will want to know which players your club will buy in the off season for strengthening and who your rival clubs didn’t manage to get. You will tend to look forward to the clashes with your rival team and whole-heartedly support your club to win. Isn’t that what REAL football fans are all about?
Since Chester mentioned the Heysel Stadium disaster, read a report "The club was in no way at fault and neither were Juventus. I often reflect and say, there was no enquiry really. I want to know who was to blame for choosing that inept, dilapidated stadium for two massive clubs playing in a European Cup final. Surely, Barcelona was available and the Bernabeu, it could've been held anywhere really but not a run down athletics stadium?
Liverpool had objected to the choice of ground to stage the final well before the friendly banter outside the stadium began to turn nasty inside. Aside from the fact that the stadium appeared to be crumbling, Liverpool's main concern was that there was to be a neutral section of the ground set aside for football fans from Belgium. The club argued that only Liverpool and Juventus should be allocated tickets. Setting aside a neutral area would only lead to both sets of fans being able to buy tickets off Belgium touts thus creating a dangerous mixed area. As history has since proved, this neutral area was soon filled with Italian supporters."
It is quite easy to find some club to blame. You may not remember that 1985 is a heck a long time ago.
I am definitely cheesed off by bandwagon-hopping. If he can switch his loyalty for a club so easily, then he might become a chelsea fan if chelsea really become more successful than Man.Utd.
Although I only started to support Man.Utd. in the late 90s & I must admit it was my uncle who influenced me to be a Man.Utd. fan, I'm a die-hard Man.Utd. fan!
I didn't convert to being an arsenal fan when they went through an unbeaten season. Nor did I convert to being a chelsea fan when they won the EPL in the last 2 seasons. I also hate liverpool but now I hate chelsea more!
The bottom line is to stay loyal to the club you support & don't only support the winning teams.
Its being 15 years since I supported the Devils and there was a time when I nearly did the reverse-Raja version of switching the Devils for the Reds.Yaya go ahead boo me you Reds and forgive me Devils,I was young at that time.haha.
That was when I was just 13,14 years old and during that season Man Utd went through a very bad patch,losing 5-0 to Newcastle in St James Park,6-3 to Southampton in The Dell and 2-1 to Chelsea in Old Trafford.It was a month of hell when every fans except the Devils' were having a go and teasing Man U fans.At that age,not having experience a relationship,don't even bother to mention supporting a club in the sense of marriage and what in the world is the meaning of die-hard fan.I don't have a single clue by then and I was so raged by the somewhat pathetic results,supporting another club seems to be an alternative and its no big deal anyway until my good friend enlightened me.
He was a loyal Devils fan no doubt and he said to me,"Hey buddy,if you have a gf next time and you suddenly go bald in a month then she ditched you,how will you feel man."That surely woke me up from the silly thought of giving up on the Devils for just a poor 3 matches run.Since then its Devils and just Devils.Look who had the last laugh that season,Devils!Funny enough,after that season one of our friend who was a Devils fan switched to the Reds side stating that he can't stand us keep bragging the title win.Well oh well.
Young fans might not know what die-hard fans is all about at their age.That is something for them to learn and find out.Hope Raja had found which team he belongs to.
Cheers
Irregardless of which team people chose to support,a certain level of respect and decorum is in order. Differences in opinions and choices are normal in life but as mature adults, we should respect people's indifferences of our own choices and not be blinded by our passion and biasness.
Friendly banter is acceptable but vicious taunting and digging up tragedies of the past? Must we resort to such tactics when most of us are here to represent the clubs that we passionately support? At the end of the day, it doesn't matter who we support, the important thing is we are all binded by our passion for the game itself.
The younger soccer supporters may be finding their feet and waiting for their "true" calling and we should give them the chance to explore their options.If Raja feels he truly enjoy the United style of play, then it's his choice to make.
It doesn't mean him ditching Liverpool for United makes the Reds any less worse of a team than the Devils. It was simply a young man's personal preference. Hopefully, Raja's choice of United will make him a fan for life. It's the least he could do if he wishes to prove us wrong.
Fans definitely should not go “bandwagon hopping.” Instead, they should remain fans of the same club for life.
People who switch clubs at their whim and fancy are not true football fans. For example, those “supporting” a football club, just because their friends support it, are not fans. They only want to gain acceptance among their friends.
I can’t see how a person can support more than one club. If you claim that you “support Manchester United, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal” at the same time, how deep is your loyalty for each club? I don’t understand how a person can possibly have divided loyalties – in the same league. It sounds impossible.
When you support a football club, you should cheer for the club, both in victory and in defeat, through thick and thin, and in life and in death. It sounds a little like marriage vows, but yes, declaring your support for a football club is similar to getting married. Because, only then, can you feel the true passion of being a football fan.
Supporting a club is a lifetime of commitment. Once you declare it, stick with it.
Utterly rubbish.
These people who are 'converts' are basically immature soccer fans. They can't handle the stress, the ups and downs of a club. It’s like to marry someone, and they next day divorce because you saw a hotter girl. There are many types of fans out there. There's the one who supports only the winning team, basically if the team goes down he will support some other team which won the title. A good example is Chelsea. Only 2 years ago, blue shirts start appearing on Orchard Road. Before, Chelsea wasn't even in the vocabulary of Singaporeans, only Man Utd and Liverpool. Then there's the individual fan, meaning he supports only the player and subsequently becomes a fan of the club. My cousin was an avid Man Utd fan, only when Beckham departed to Real Madrid I know that he wasn't a true fan at heart. He now wears a Real Madrid jersey with the number 23 at the back and next year, its a safe bet that he will purchase a yellow jersey. And finally there's the die hard fan. Watches every match, jumps when his team scores a goal, cries when his team suffers a defeat, welcomes new signing as if they were family and most importantly, does not 'convert' when his team does not win titles!
Faiz Isa, 18, Year 1 Polytechnic Student
tonyarrcado@hotmail.com
Hi. This is the first time I'm contributing.
I think that fans who switch teams, especially to rival teams, aren't really fans at all. They are simply sheep, following the majority who want to be associated with a winning team. Sadly, this is common in a competitive society like Singapore, where everything has to be 'number one'.
It is okay to support more than one team, but certainly not deadly rivals. For example, I'm an Arsenal fan, but my second team will never be another London club or Man U.
My second team is actually Sunderland, as I was impressed by their performance during the early 2000s, when Kevin Phillips and Niall Quinn nearly propelled them into Europe. Sure, they have since slid back to the Championship, but I still look out for their results, aside from Arsenal of course.
So football fans, please choose a team and stick to it. Switching teams shows that you don't have strong opinions, and only depend on others.
I have followed Manchester United very closely, from Pallister and Bruce through to Ronaldo and Rooney.. but I have always appreciated good football nonetheless. I agree that fans should watch one team, follow their ups and downs, and not claim to be supporters of whichever team is hot at the moment.
It's nice to see declarations of passion for club XYZ and ABC here, and some might think dear little Raja and other club-hoppers in general do not deserve to be called true fans.
What I find really interesting is this.
People can follow the Reds at Anfield religiously, but will they do the same for the Lions at Kallang? And what of the languishing S-League, which needs new foreign teams to come in season - let's face it, it's not to bring in new talent, it's to make up the numbers, because 8 teams were never enough - where is the undying passion there?
How many would wake up at 2.45 to watch Man Utd play Grasshoppers Zurich but change the channel when Home United plays Sengkang Punggol in front of 245 fans?
If we Singaporeans don't support Singapore teams, who will? Should we hire Bangladeshis to cheer for us? Thais? Malaysians?
I may have been a man u-then-no club-then-Chelsea fan. But it’s a definite no-no for bandwagon-hopping. I had shared my ‘love’ story before. It was rather a matter of realisation and feelings. I can’t help it if I can feel no more joy when man u wins. I& the bigger wagon would have been arsenal (EPL champion with an unbeaten season). Not Chelsea.
(Since many of you are comparing it to love)
If you found out that you like someone not because of who he is but what he possessed, then should not you stop the relationship? One should not blindly continue just for the sake of the supposedly loyalty. Because loyalty it will become no more. For Raja, if he’s truly happy with this match-making, that’s good. It would be dreadful to see him engaging another matchmaker a few years down the aisle.
Some get it right the first time. Others need to learn the wrenching moments of breaking up..
& while you can have different tries to find your true love, it isn’t acceptable to have many loves on the same try. That’s called infidelity.
Looks like I've missed alot during the festive period.
I've been a Chelsea fan since the days when Gullit was the manager and have never look back since. It was their attacking brand of football that attracted me to the club.
For most of us, supporting a club is a choice. We choose to support the club at one point or another because of certain qualities found in the club. But for most English fans, they support the club because it is their local club. They are simply born into the club and though thick and thin, that is their club. I salute them for that.
However it's only when you devote your mind, soul and body (ok I exaggerated) into the supporting the club, only then you can cry, smile, rejoice etc with the club's progress.
But for this Sat, I will be a Liverpool fan rooting together with my soccer buddy (Reds fan) for a Liverpool. In case if you are wondering whether I've jump the wagon, continue to wonder. Haha.
Liverpool legend Bill Shankly once said that football is not just a matter of life and death,its more than that.Of course to most of us that might sound just a bit too extreme to swallow down but not so to those hardcore football fans who eat,drink and sleep footy for their life.Are there still such fans out there?I won't bet against that.
For most of us local people,choosing over which club to support isn't that serious to the extent of needing to face the gallow when you decided to switch after sometimes for whatever reasons.This beautiful game was created to let everyone around the world to play it,enjoy it.Supporting a club means getting involved with the game,having a common topic to discuss about or debate on like we are doing here.Its all about fun eh.
Although those glory seeking fans really turn me off but I can't stop them so if you are one I recommend you do it silently before getting sticks from all the loyal fans of clubs which they hold onto with so much love and respect.
My father once told me, 'support the team where your money's on'. That held very true to me untill I laid eyes on a team called Arsenal. I found myself not feeling an ounce of regret or hatred when they made me lose money. Unlike other teams like man usa, liverpool and spurs chickens and chelski, when bets are lost on them, i curse and swear for days.
So i guess from that gauge i've become a gooner.
Regarding those 2-in-1 fans... Haha, just share my story about this my Indian scholar friend back in JC. He was apparently a Real Madrid & Man U fan. And trying to wind him up was HARD!
For instance, if Man U lost, I'll go over and say, "Eh, Man U lost!" and he'd be like, "Never mind, at least Real Madrid won." Because Man U AND Real Madrid hardly lost at the same time, I never really got to him, and eventually gave up.
But I wouldn't classify him as a fan, not really. Even he himself would readily admit he wasn't a really "hardcore" one in any case. Being from India, he was more into cricket than anything, and I think he probably just wanted to have a conversation topic with us so he tried to show an interest in football too. I had to let him know the Man U scores or else he wouldn't even know Man U just beat Liverpool, although over the 2 years, I think he probably ended up knowing more about Liverpool than Man U.
And even though I might not classify him as a true fan, I wouldn't say I find him a turn off. There's really no rule to say he must be as "interested" and hardcore about it as the rest of us.
Bandwagon-hopping fans are really a turn off and really making a mockery of the word FAN. I guess they don't really understand the meaning of being a fan. Instead of give them the title of fan maybe we should give then another title like followers, sheep etc which is more appropriate and deserving to them.
Actually I do have a bandwagon-hopping fan right in my own home. My mum who doesn't understand football but watch it anyway cause our TV would be showing Liverpool match on the weekend for 90 mins.She would always be supporting the Liverpool opponents just so that she could gloat and maybe make us change the channel when Liverpool is playing badly.She would also call me & my dad crazy whenever we shout if Liverpool wins and have long faces when Liverpool lose.
Maybe bandwagon-hopping fans are like my mum because they do not understand football or have the passion for it which cause them to change clubs every now and then just be get included in the excitement.
For 2 in 1/3 in 1 fans, I really amazed how they could support 2 or 3 teams at the same time. For me, just by supporting one club is already took a lot of emotions from me.I will be on such a high(like I drank 10 cups of coffee) whenever Liverpool wins that I can't sleep at night and I will feel like nothing is going right for that day when Liverpool lose. Maybe those 2 in 1/3 in 1 fans don't really support their team with the same intensity that I do because if I am one of those 2 in 1/3 in 1 fans, I guess I go crazy by now ;)
full name:Lizawati Taini
favourite team: ONE AND ONLY LIVERPOOL
Dear Mr Postman,
I have read about this football convert Raja Edwin & i find it hard to stomach that such a turncoat exists. As a football fan i always strongly believe you stick to you guns & what your heart believes. As any real football fan would tell you, when you wear the jersey, you wear it with pride & you expect the people around you to do the same. That's what bonds the fans together to almost closer than brotherhood. Why we support the teams can be due to a number of reasons (win money from betting, cute player, winning team form/run, fantastic cup winning goal) but what really irritates a real fan is when somebody just jumps ship to the best loved fad. Where is the pride then when you only sing when you are winning? Imagine youif the EPL without the pride & the passion... it would be as empty as the Super 12 rugby league in NZ/Australia(where we hardly have heard of them) when the fans just follow their favorite players instead of the teams. (No offence to all rugby fans)
I had the opportunity to go Istanbul & watch the final where Liverpool was trailing 3-0 in the first half & during half time, the fans were still singing "you;ll Never Walk Alone" & "We are going to win 4-3"... that is the mark of a true fan. Someone who supports his team with pride & never gives up. I honestly feel that a true Man U fan wouldnt want a turn coat like this Raja Edwin because frankly, how many jerseys is this going to wear when "his" team wins? As a Liverpool fan, i also believe many Man U/Chelsea fans are just misguided & follow the trends without knowing what they are getting themselves into with the unforgivable while having no heart whatsoever in the team they support.
Especially when the passion of the EPL is so strong, sometimes peer pressure is even stronger because its easy to succumb to what your friends tell you especially when you are a kid but i firmly believe, if you support a team, you stick to them all the way. Most of us are pretty lucky because we were exposed to the teams we support thanks to our good friends, fathers, uncles, etc... but how would our loved ones feel when they find out that the supporter they helped "groomed" had "turned against them"?
It's kind of sad that these fair weathered fans exist... kind of like if guy who dumps another girl for a hotter girl. Im sure many of the female fans out there who are reading this can attest to that. Having a fan like this is like sleeping with the enemy & definitely getting away with murder.
Neutrals should pad their backside with alot of padding because sitting on the fence would be very painful,... if you know what i mean
I believe there is a difference between 'Fan' and 'Supporter'.
You only become a fan of something easy to the eyes, easy to the boasting glands.
But as a supporter you are behind the team in heart and soul, even when they play like dung.
i don't know what kind of 'fan' raja is. there is no such thing as 'my friends support pool so i support them too'. i know so many man u fans, but im still a gooner. even if all my frens are devils, i'll still remain a gooner.
i can't believe raja even has the face to say that he's an ex-pool fan. if i were him, i'd be so ashamed.
and he said that if his friends supported other clubs, he'd support those too. this shows that he does not really and truely want to support man u. he's supporting them just because his friends support them. and that is disgusting.
ARGHHH!!!!!!!!! DAMN IT!!!!!!!
I think Raja is just easily influenced by his friends. Can't blame him.
Dear folks especially Liverpool fans, Take it easy on Raja as he may be a half baked fan of Liverpool and now hopefully a 'cooked' fan of Man U. If he sticks to Man U for the rest of his young life, he will have the chance to learn the ups and downs on fan-dom.
If you know fair weather fans who never stick to a team every season, then these fans do not really know what soccer is or they do not have any loyalties in life!
In Europe, such converts may have to move house or be prepared to get scorned at in the neighbourhood. Over here in Singapore however, its so common I've already met a few of those myself.
It may be tough for Raja being the odd one out among his friends, but he would have gained much more respect in the long run if he had stuck with the Kop to the end. Perhaps he's too afraid to 'walk alone'.
I am not ashamed to admit belonging to the Man Utd-turned-Arsenal category. Not because of peer, family or glory pressure but the preference of the latter's direction, philosophy, style of play and image. It might sound strange and senseless to most but the 'Beckham crossing to Nistelrooy' routine sickened and drove me away to The Gunners. Look how well they're doing now with open and creative play evident again. If I go back to Man Utd along with Arsene Wenger's departure, you'll be the first to know.
Incidently, I can also be labeled a '3-in-1' supporter with Portsmouth (Kanu, Lauren, Tony Adams) and Villareal (Pires, Cygan)
being the other two. Does that count?
Cheerios
Keeve, 25, Student
Sometimes the comments on Raja seem alittle exaggerated. Yes, bandwagon hopping should not be condoned. But, its not like he committed this every now and then. We have to accept the naiveity when he was young and surrounded by Liverpool supporters. I am sure many succumb to peer pressure every now and then. Perhaps Raja wanted to be part of a large group and had no choice but to accept Liverpool as the club he supported. As i mentioned earlier, give him credit for sticking by Man U during this difficult past 3 years where they hardly won anything except the Carling Cup and FA Cup. I guess he has matured when you know he hasn't deserted them for another winning team. Its not like he switches teams every now and then. Being young, your scope for the different teams is very narrow. So it is understandable that the team he was most exposed to was Pool. But as he grew older, he discovered his passion and hence Man U. A simple analogy would be a schoolboy crush and real love as one grows up. I am not playing the good guy but i think he should not be condemned but instead applauded for sharing his story.
Cheers,
kel
cfcfan,
A chelsea fan coming to the defense of a glory-hunting supporter. Ironic.
First up, as many people surely would vouch for, you support a football club from young. You begin building allegiance to a club slowly through the years. I'm sure success plays a part in the club of choice. I'm not denying that.
Next, if you're a true football fan then obviously you would have known about the most famous game in the whole world and obviously find a favourite team.
Obviously you'e a wind-up merchant. Maybe i didn't make it clear but i did not say you HAVE to support the club your dad supports. I accept there are supporters who support the rival club the family supports just to spite them.
I was just trying to prove that football is instilled from young.
Finally your wit is indeed appaluded, just maybe a little more common sense lacking.
I think to settle this debate will be tough athere are some hard-headed views.
But some chelsea fan commented about his fav players being robben and shevchenko. Really?? I would have thought a real chelsea fan would have found zola to be a chelsea fan.
Young fans may struggle with this but a real older football supporter is to remember the history of the club. Liverpool fans remembering the legends barnes, rush, shankly, paisley, dalglish and having the passion and knowldedge of what they brought to the club.
I am a man united supporter and it sickens me when supporters acknowledge the club as "man u". The abu-nation have taken this title in humour of man united and it has become common place til it is accepted culture.
We may not be old enough to know of the legends like george best, denis law, bill foulkes, lou macari, alex stepney and brian kidd. But at least have the interest in yur club o find out what they hvae done for the great club and why the flowers of manchester will always be a song significant in the history of the club.
LUHG
People support clubs differently. Those kind of fans who just support a club because of their favourite player are just fair-weathered fans to me, therefore it is understandable if they switch loyatly when their favourite player switches team.
You don't always have to support a team because they are winning. Ok I'm a Man U fan but it was more than them winning that made me support them. Back then, my friends were all United fans, the tv was showing Man U matches all the time, and Man U was probably the first team I knew. I started getting to know the team more and since has never looked back, even if they have had tough times in the past 3 years.
If Raja was a true Liverpool fan to began with, it would be criminal for him to switch to Man U. I believe fans of Man U, Arsenal, Liverpool or Chelsea will, more or less, feel a small sense of hatred towards the other 3 clubs, not to mention the strong rivalry between Man U and Pool.
Even if Chelsea is going to dominate the next decade the way Man U did in the 90's, I can't see myself being a Chelsea fan. You don't have to support a team because they win. In fact, in Manchester, there are more City fans than United.
What kind of fan do you think one is, when he says he was a Pool fan in the 80's, United fan in the 90's, for a while an Arsenal fan, and now a Chelsea fan, erm wait, maybe back to United now?
Never has the idea of switching teams and ditching United came to my mind. It will never happen. Once a Devil, always a Devil.
-Manchester United fan Raymond Ng ;p
I was a Devil's fan LONG before Rooney and Ronaldo appeared, circa 1994. Which makes me 5 at that time. Wonderful and exciting era! Cantona! Ince. Hughes. Giggs. My dad loves the late G.Best.
For those who watched soccer in the 90s would remember that Central, then known as TV 12 showed soccer matches. I vaguely recall Crystal Palace. Nottingham Forest, which I thought only exsisted in Robin Hood! XD
My cousins who were older than me supported Liverpool- their dads are 'Pool fans. During weekends when we meet, and when there's a game, we would always take a swipe at each other. Saying silly things like "Fowler always gets fouled" "Mcmanaman's mad" and we will banter back and forth.
Now, they are Arsenal fans thanks to Henry and Viera! Their fathers are still supporting Liverpool. We don't say childish things anymore, but there is pride.
I am PROUD to be a Devil's fan. Even through times when they are without trophies. Of course, sometimes I look at our club and frown upon certain things like is Rio Ferdinand really worth his pay?
Back then during Fergie's Fledgings debut, I also took a foundness for Chelsea because they DIDN'T go anywhere near Utd.
They say when you hate, you hate because you know it's good.
Now I absolutely HATE Chelsea. Are they good? Yes AND No. What the hell was I thinking back then?
I refused to let my father get a Samsung LCD tv this year as we are indirectly paying the enemies...'The Special One', JT, Lampard, Drogba = CHELSEA! Samsung is their sponsor. Samsung PAYS Chelsea for advertising. If you buy a Samsung product, you're actually GIVING funds to the
That's my logic! Ha!
As for Raja, WELCOME ABOARD BRO! People have the rights to do whatever they want, to support whichever club they want.
If there are any more of you from the Kop who DESPISE or HATE the boy for making a choice for HIMSELF, I guess this is why we can't get along right?
Don't get me wrong, I really admire Kewell (Leeds had a wonderful team! Sad they went bust!), Garcia, Gerrard, Alonso and others. (:
This is going to sound wierd, but you can admire and respect players and FOLLOW certain clubs due to the players but to me, one has to be DECISIVE on a favourite to be called a loyal fan. ;)
I feel that Edwin had the right to choose whichever club he truly can associate with. Perhaps he was exposed to the world of football late, he hasn't really find that special feeling and passion a fan is supposed to have with his club.
If he didn't find it with Liverpool, now that he has with Man united, we should respect that. Talking about peer pressure, he was first introduced to liverpool by a close pal then switched to Man United after a game of football with other friends. To me, he was still in the process of searching.
How many football fans out there understand or have known the history behind the club u support? For those who have been watching football since the 60s, 70s or 80s, you have your opinion about supporters of winning teams in the 90s..so how many of u didn't really support liverpool because they were a winning team back then in the 70s and 80s? Not many. My point is its not easy for people to associate themselves with deteoriating teams like Derby County, Nottingham forest, Preston North end, even if these clubs might have had illustrious history too. Its the football that the clubs play during our time that influence us on who we support. It could just be that Fa Cup final that u happen to be watching when u decided to support the losing team because of their never say die spirit, or it could be that special player who u fancied the moment u saw him and how he became a club legend that made u love the club too.
I'm a Man United fan since 1993 and proud of it. Eric Cantona was the man for me and idolising him has made me go through and find out more about the history of the club. With the tradition the club has had, giving young players a chance to ply their trade in this sport since the 50s (the Busby Babes were the original winning young team in the 50s,a time when people all over England didn't believe in youths in football,including the merseysiders...) and being the first English team to participate and win the European cup back then and an attacking philosophy for their football, and the fact that a Man U legend Denis Law scored a decisive goal which relegated the club in the 70s, but he is still a legend for us no matter that episode happened, its cultivated my own interest and passion for the club. Of course Liverpool fans will have their say on what influenced them, that i respect too, be it Bill Shankly or Bob Paisley or Steven Gerrard.
Edwin should not be condemned. He is still young, but now is the time for him to recognise that special feeling and passion for the club he can associate himself with and stay true and loyal and not betray himself when he first decided to support the club for their football, their tradition, their players.
I agree that winning shldn't be everything, if it does..u're probably a punter. Playing with the kind of football that you know ur club can,the kind of drama that can happen even in extra time in a match involving ur club, gives more satisfaction than watching ur club force out 1-0 wins and shut out the opposition (ala Chelsea and Arsenal under George Graham).
Man United made the 1st move against the wishes of the English FA back then in the 50s to participate in European competitions. Liverpool caused the English teams to be banned from European competitions in the 80s. What a contrast, the entrance team and the exit team. So which is the angel and which is the devil?
Come Saturday, its a brilliant showcase of talents and contest between the most successful Premier League team and the most successful Old First Division team. Let's hope it'll be a truly memorable one..especially for the "arrogant" Man united fans and not "well behaved gracious" Liverpool fans. U have ur opinions and i have mine and for Christ's sake..forget the 18 Old First division titles..hope your American owners can do a Roman Abramovich and win your first Premier League title since..20 years back? If i recall..Man United fans were always teased until the moment the club won its first title in 26 years in 1993, and so we became arrogant..that's what they say.
Well let's count the European trophy in the cabinet don't we? Even we're the "Devil" that exit , we had won more than you did in europe er?
Oh are you the Britain Bitterest just across the park in disguise ?
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